Richard Holbrooke, Obama's special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan was on both PBS's News Hour and was interviewed by Fareed Zakaria on CNN's GPS.
Here is a mash-up of what he said on both shows. NH is News Hour and FZ is Fareed Zakaria
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On Pakistani efforts to deny the Taliban a base in Pakistan
they are doing gradually more, not as much, perhaps, as we would want. But I want to stress that the situation in terms of what they are doing is a lot better than it was a year-and-a-half ago. They're engaged. They have lost 30,000 of their own people in this terrorist war. And, right now, 70,000 troops are diverted to flood relief. But they said they will do more. –NH
On the delicate partnership with Pakistan and why a cross border attack is not possible
- We have to work with the Pakistanis. It's very difficult at times. But one has to understand that it is a sovereign country. I know because I run into this when I go out on the street. The people come up to me and say, we have got to tell the Pakistanis that they got to do X, or else.
Well, the correct answer is, or else what? We are working together. And we have different situations, and we have to reconcile them. This strategic dialogue, which Hillary Clinton has now headlined three times in seven months here and in Islamabad and which will continue next year with a visit here by President Zardari and a visit to Pakistan by President Obama, is a -- has made a tremendous set of moves forward. -NH
On Securing the Af-Pak Border
That border is not sealable. We have trouble sealing our own borders in a peacetime situation with Mexico. But the -- the Pakistanis are doing more, say they want to do more and we want to work closely with them. And that's about all I feel free to say on that subject. –NH
But there always seems to be a reason why they [The Pakistani Army] can't get to North Waziristan…This has Been going on for five years- Zakaria
I'm not here to defend the Pakistani military or to attack them. They know our views on the importance of this area you're talking about, and that's really all I feel comfortable saying on that issue, except to acknowledge the importance of the subject you've raised. - FZ
On the ISI
“there is evidence on both sides of the issue. They -- as Secretary Clinton said today, they are our closest collaborator in the counterterrorism efforts. And there's an enormous amount that goes on where we work together. On the other hand, there are areas which are very disturbing. And General Keane in that "Charlie Rose" excerpt alluded to them.
But I think, with all due respect to a man I greatly admire, I think he somewhat overstated the facts. But I'm not going to get into a dispute of details. The fact is that we -- that I think people are so into the narrative that you are hearing, that they have not examined the fact that we are working together closely against the terrorists, but not in every area.
And in one area in particular, North Waziristan, where the Haqqani Network is poised against the eastern part of Afghanistan and cuts in towards Kabul, is an area of enormous concern to us.”-NH
On negotiations between Pakistan and India over Kashmir
“we would welcome any reduction in tensions or any agreements… We will be happy to be of help, if both sides want us to be. But we are not going to unilaterally put ourselves in the position of intermediation on issues” -NH
On Rumors of “negotiations” or “talks” on the Taliban”
Pakistanis aren’t being cut out of the talks and that's all that is happening. And the Pakistanis are not being cut out. We have talked extensively to them about it in the last few days. I met with General Kayani on this very issue yesterday, and we had some extensive discussions. And they understand what is going on.-NH
“I think the press has left the impression that negotiations of the type which ultimately ended the war in Vietnam in 1973 and ultimately ended the war in Bosnia in 1995 are somehow breaking out. That is just not the case, Fareed.”-FZ
What we've got here is an increasing number of Taliban at high levels saying, hey, we want to talk. I think this is a result, in large part, of the growing pressure they're under from General Petraeus and the ISAF command - FZ
you've used the word "negotiation." I would not use that word. I know what a negotiation looks like, and these are -- things that you're referring to, are mostly described by contacts and discussions not involving the United States.”- FZ
Who are we dealing with in Afghanistan? Who is the enemy?
“There's no Ho Chi Minh. There's no Slobodan Milosevic. There's no Palestinian authority. There is a widely dispersed group of -- of people that we roughly call the enemy. There's al Qaeda, with which there's no possibility of any discussion at all. There is the Afghan Taliban, sometimes called the Quetta Shura, under Mullah Omar, and that seems to be a loose organization with a very shadowy arrangement.
There's the Pakistani Taliban, the TTP, the ones who trained, rather fortunately, ineptly trained the Times Square Bomber, targeting Pakistan. There is the Haqqani network, a notorious, separate group of Afghan Taliban inside Pakistan who do a great deal of the -- of the mayhem and carnage inside Afghanistan.
And then, finally, there's the LET, which you're very familiar with. You did that extraordinary "Terror in Mumbai" program. And the LET is one that Americans don't pay much attention to, but their goal here is clearly to provoke the maximum amount of conflict between India and Pakistan.” –GPS FZ
On the Future
“there is no solution in Afghanistan unless Pakistan is part of that solution”- NH
It's certainly not another Vietnam, for reasons you and I discussed before. And it is certainly not hopeless. But anyone who doesn't recognize what a daunting task it is is misleading. -FZ
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